EMPortal.info Forum Index The Gateway to Electronic Music
Navigation  •   Portal  •   Forum  •   Profile  •   Search  •   SmartFeed  •   Register  •   Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in

 What triggers a sale?

Post new topicReply to topic
Author Message
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:09 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

One would have to look at it in two ways, the music buying public fall into these two categories,

1. someone who still collects music as the physical product for the fun of that process, cataloging their collection, getting everything available by a particular artist/band etc. and relishing in the fact that maybe they have some rarities that others desire. This can generally be broke down further as an established artist/band continues to release albums that creates a knock-on effect from their previous releases and so creates sales of new releases.
Collectors of this nature would rarely venture into the non-established area as the release just doesn't have the credibility of those well known acts, unless the right person says its good, I repeat "unless the RIGHT person says its goodĒ. This buying public tends to be the ones that would steer clear of non established items until a hype has been created, they then make the decision to obtain the product on this fact.
This is how hype of a product whatever that product may be, gets public interest, you can compare it to a painting, unless the top critics have said a painting is good, nobody assumes it is, because we all need reassurance that we are making the right decisions, and thatís human nature.
Quite often new releases from established artists are below par compared to releases from new and "hobbyist" musicians who put their soul into that debut album or personal piece of music.

2. The music listening public that just want to listen to music via other means either free DL, paid for DL or a free or purchased album, or as with the majority watch and DL from You Tube clips. These people tend to be the audience that are attracted to new releases from non established "pro"artists due to their desire to hear something different or in fact because it is free and easily obtainable. This person will listen to, maybe like, and seek further music from a particular artist/band until they have either exhausted the free possibilities or got fed up with it and moved on to something else. In some cases this person may be tempted to buy a few paid for releases in either support of that artist or because they want to hear that latest release that isnít available free. In general a person will outlay a few quid at an event for someoneís product, this goes hand in hand with the whole picture and experience of going to that event and coming away with a memento, physical reminder, whathaveyou.

The divide is getting bigger between big names and non established names all the time, but what is also happening is that with the internet comes a wider audience for both, and record companies are no longer selling the product of the artist and bands, the internet is!

Hobbyist musos donít stand a chance in making music for money anymore but we can still gain credibility amongst our peers and public alike with honest music, live appearances and supporting others in their endeavors.
Mart.

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
softroom
Even more Cool Member




Age: 58
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 343


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:13 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

People definitely like free stuff. I made a track available for free a few weeks ago and it's had way more downloads than my most popular album on bandcamp already. On the one hand I'm kinda pleased to reach lots of people and remind them I'm still alive. On the other, I can't decide whether making a few quid here and there really matters or is relevant any more.
It feels wrong to give away something you believe has real value but it feels good to be reminded you still have an audience. After more than 30 years slowly learning the craft I don't feel I'll ever stop making music, or could if I wanted to, but with so many others giving it away and no perceived difference between the many available piles of data, should I stand in the sea and command it to turn around?

Not sure what my point was except that I have no more idea how to make this pay than when I got my first synth in 1978. It does feel quite liberating though and in one sense I'm writing more personal music now than ever before. Time for a smiley? Smile

_________________
http://www.headshock.co.uk/
http://www.bogusfocus.com/

OfflineView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member




Age: 62
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1983


netherlands.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:19 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

"Hobbyist musos donít stand a chance in making music for money "

making money is still possible, problem is making BIG money.
I am happy with every euro I earn with my music. I do not need it for a living, but it helps to buy some new gear or use it for a present for my partner Wink
See it as an extra.

And it is good to see that there are fans who like your music so much that they want to pay for it.

BTW what is a "Hobbyist musician"

_________________
www.phrozenlight.tk
www.musiczeit.com/phrozenlight/
www.phrozenlight.bandcamp.com

HiddenView user's profileSend private message    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:08 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I think Paul has hit the point, is a few quid more important than the amount of people that can hear one's music and get pleasure from it.

Looking at percentages Bert, if someone said to you here's 50 euro for your latest album but I want a 100 copies of it for that to sell on my stall, would you sell it to him. Probably not, but if you made the same 50 euro by selling only half a dozen to 6 different buyers would you be happy with that. You still get 50 euro but the first option would maybe allow 100 people to hear your music instead of 6.

If you dont make music/play live for a living, then you are a "Hobbyist musician" in my thinking. If its something you do in your leisure/spare time its a hobby nothing more and nothing less, if however that hobby yealds a product that is saleable, be it card making, jewellery whatever, then its a choice as to if, and how much you are willing to sell it for and where and when the opportunity for those sales are sought. With most hobbies a certain amount of peer group credibility comes into our success's, be it fishing, flying model aircraft, or bird watching, most if not all have some kind of monitary reward somewhere along the line, but the likes of flyers of model aircraft only get that opportunity if they enter a competion or something of that nature.

So again the key issue is, you enjoy your hobby and if a few others can get enjoyment out of your hobby via your product all well and good, if they are willing to pay for that privilige!, but if the opportunity of more people gaining enjoyment out of your hobby was there wouldn't that be more satisfying to you?

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
ambientlive
One of the Coolest Member





Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 987
Location: Boston/Swindon UK


blank.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:40 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

"Hobbyist musos donít stand a chance in making music for money "

Before they start making money everyone is a hobbyist muso

_________________
Ambientlive

OfflineView user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website    
Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member




Age: 62
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1983


netherlands.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:50 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
if someone said to you here's 50 euro for your latest album but I want a 100 copies of it for that to sell on my stall, would you sell it to him. Probably not,


Well I do, that is why I sell on MusicZeit, I get a smaller part of the sales, but sell more, probably because they advertise better, (I hope) Wink

Quote:
but if the opportunity of more people gaining enjoyment out of your hobby was there wouldn't that be more satisfying to you?


No, even when there is only 1 paying fan it satisfy me because he proved by buying that he likes it.

Some of my free albums have more than 4000 downloads, but does that satisfy me? No, because I do not know if they like the music or if they are only freeloaders who download all free stuff.


Quote:
If you dont make music/play live for a living, then you are a "Hobbyist musician" in my thinking.


In that case I am not a "Hobbyist musician", because my goal is to make a living from my music. But because it is not going that good I had to take a daytime job beside it Wink

But important is why are you making music, are you making it for the fans? are you making it to become famous or are you making it to become rich??

I started to make music because the music of that time-period was garbage.
I only released my music because some people asked me to do it, after I had uploaded 3 tracks to MP3 dot Com.
Because I got later a lot of downloads & comments on Archive I decided to check if it was possible to sell my music and Yes there were buying fans.
Since that day I still sell my music, and every sale satisfies me more than a download.
But creating music is still the first satisfaction, and when it does not sell, pfff who cares, making it is the goal. Not making the money or having fans, probably sorry for my fans, but real fans do know what I mean.

I love you all, but above all I love real EM

_________________
www.phrozenlight.tk
www.musiczeit.com/phrozenlight/
www.phrozenlight.bandcamp.com

HiddenView user's profileSend private message    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:55 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« ambientlive » wrote:
"Hobbyist musos donít stand a chance in making music for money "

Before they start making money everyone is a hobbyist muso


that is very true John, I am refering to our current climate, not the one from the past when there were different approaches to music and "pro" music and the only way a artist/band could make money was either by having a recording contract or playing in a club covers band on a residency, wedding gig whatever.

and the term "making music for money" refers to being paid to make music, and not making music and getting paid for the product, which are two different things.

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:58 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
if someone said to you here's 50 euro for your latest album but I want a 100 copies of it for that to sell on my stall, would you sell it to him. Probably not,


Well I do, that is why I sell on MusicZeit, I get a smaller part of the sales, but sell more, probably because they advertise better, (I hope)

This answer isn’t strictly the same Bert, handing over 100 albums and saying bye bye to them for 50 euro isn’t the same as uploading a file to musicZeit and selling 50 euro worth on there.

Quote:
but if the opportunity of more people gaining enjoyment out of your hobby was there wouldn't that be more satisfying to you?


No, even when there is only 1 paying fan it satisfy me because he proved by buying that he likes it. Not really

So you need monitary gain for proof that someone likes your release, I have paid for things in the past and not liked what I have got so this again isn’t strictly true.

Some of my free albums have more than 4000 downloads, but does that satisfy me? No, because I do not know if they like the music or if they are only freeloaders who download all free stuff.


Percentages again and if 3000 of those 4000 liked it, its better than having one person paying for it and still not guaranteed that it was liked

So you sell one item on line and are satisfied with a few quid as opposed to knowing that loads of people may or may not have gained pleasure from your free downloads,


Quote:
If you dont make music/play live for a living, then you are a "Hobbyist musician" in my thinking.


In that case I am not a "Hobbyist musician", because my goal is to make a living from my music. But because it is not going that good I had to take a daytime job beside it

Wouldn’t everyone’s goal be to make a living from their hobby

But important is why are you making music, are you making it for the fans? are you making it to become famous or are you making it to become rich?? Or your own self satisfaction you gain from your hobby.

I started to make music because the music of that time-period was garbage. In your opinion

I only released my music because some people asked me to do it, after I had uploaded 3 tracks to MP3 dot Com.
Because I got later a lot of downloads & comments on Archive I decided to check if it was possible to sell my music and Yes there were buying fans.
Since that day I still sell my music, and every sale satisfies me more than a download.
“But creating music is still the first satisfaction” again the same with everyone pursuing a hobby, and when it does not sell, pfff who cares, making it is the goal. Not making the money or having fans, probably sorry for my fans, but real fans do know what I mean.

I love you all, but above all I love real EM

And I do know you make music for the fun and satisfaction of it Bert, you wouldnt do the amount you do if you didnt gain immense pleasure from it ;

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:04 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

and whats all that code in place of commas
HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:14 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

and why has this thread gone from what triggers a sale and my analogy of that to me then having to defend something I wrote within that post :-!
HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
Phrozenlight
One of the Coolest Member




Age: 62
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1983


netherlands.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:57 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

just because I like to tease you martyn ;p

And because I think that when you know how it is possible to trigger a sale you would have found what everyone is looking for.


it is not only with music, but with everything, what triggers people to buy???

If we would know that we would make the same thing. but than again why buying something everybody has.

So in the end the question is just stupid in my eyes.

_________________
www.phrozenlight.tk
www.musiczeit.com/phrozenlight/
www.phrozenlight.bandcamp.com

HiddenView user's profileSend private message    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:06 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Going back to the thread subject of what triggers a sale, maybe people who play musical instruments need to forget about the past. It seems to me that people who take up the playing of musical instruments think they have a need to sell a created musical piece of work, why? Because this is what happened in the past via recording contracts etc.
What is so special or indeed different about a person that plays musical instruments and someone who say plays snooker or darts at the weekend or goes out to lacal places of interest and draws or paints what he see's or takes photos of birds that he has spotted.

The key point here is that a "musician" creates music for the pleasure of it but that then leads to the belief that his creation is good enough for someone to want to buy it! That is in bred into musicians through the pedigree and domination of the music business, but "good enough" is surely left in the eye of the beholder or I say again "if the right person says its good enough"

Selling music is the same as selling any other product and that relates to the quality, cost and current trends within the market place of that product. The sale of some genres of music is on a downward slide, if you want to sell music make music that is currently selling and making those artists money its a simple equasion.

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
analoguekid
Even more Cool Member




Age: 57
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 465
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:08 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Phrozenlight » wrote:
just because I like to tease you martyn ;p

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

And because I think that when you know how it is possible to trigger a sale you would have found what everyone is looking for.


it is not only with music, but with everything, what triggers people to buy???

If we would know that we would make the same thing. but than again why buying something everybody has.

So in the end the question is just stupid in my eyes.

HiddenView user's profileSend private messageSend e-mail    
Vaughan
Very Cool Member




Age: 50
Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 208


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:56 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

.....

Last edited by Vaughan on Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

OfflineView user's profileSend private message    
Vaughan
Very Cool Member




Age: 50
Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 208


uk.gif

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:08 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Honestly, I think analoguekid confuses too many issues and people. Therefore any point comes across as confused and idealistic. Sorry, analoguekid.

Earlier you put music buyers into two categories, and they're plain wrong and simplistic.

I don't collect music - but I do buy a fair amount. And I'm only interested in physical media. I listen to a lot of music, at least four hours a day every day. And that's active listening, when I'm sitting down and really getting into it. I don't catalog my collection, the alphabet has always done well for keeping things in place, thank you. I don't care about "rarities", and neither do most people. In fact, I actively hate them - music only exists if it's being heard, and I don't like to think of good music being ignored. I have 4000 odd CD's (physical media), some are single disc sets, some multi-disc sets.

There are artists I enjoy, and I have all their music. Equally there are artists where I only enjoy certain albums (I only listen to albums, never to single tracks). For example Kraftwerk - first four albums were great, but once Autobahn came out it was over for them as far as I was concerned, their music went in a different direction.

You wrote: "collectors of this nature would rarely venture into the non-established area as the release just doesn't have the credibility of those well known acts," What on earth are you basing this on?!??! It's nonsense. Just because someone collects music doesn't mean they only have interests in mainstream music, in fact it is far more likely that the opposite is true. And you simply can't make such generalizations without considering demographics. A person aged 40 who has collected music all their life will likely know a lot more about music than a 15 year old, for example. I'm talking about people who actively buy music and collect it. It's flat wrong to suggest collectors only buy well known acts.

Having said that, we live in times where some people feel superior because they can name acts few others know. It's not clever, you know. As I say, music is meant to be heard. There are literally millions of acts out there - there are bound to be a few any one of us couldn't name. But really, it's not very important.

Why do we buy older music? You might do a Google search for "reminiscence bump", which is a term psychologists use to describe our tendency to go back to our youth.

I also disagree that critics are somehow leading everyone around by the nose. That's another huge mistake. Publicity is what helps sell music, exposure. That exposure is, partly, getting reviewed - but not because the review will be good, but because it gets the name out. A bad review is a good review.

The fact is, there are indeed different types of people who are into music. The vast majority actually don't take music very seriously at all. It's a background thing, something they follow because their friends do etc. Then there are the music lovers, and that's at a different level. They do "deep listening" (to steal a phrase from Pauline Oliveros), and are quite loyal fans.

I could equally tear down your second paragraph about the downloaders, but I won't bother at this point. I honestly don't think you know enough about this to comment. I don't mean that in an insulting way, but you don't seem to really have much real understanding at all other than stereotypes.

Let me ask you this - what makes YOU buy music? Are you waiting for a critic to tell you what to buy? Are you buying something and cataloging it? I somehow doubt it.

Why we buy something is as complex, and simple, as we want it to be. We can generalize, or get down into the details. We don't need to invent tends such as "hobbyist musician" - there is already terms for this - there are professional musicians (people who are paid to make music through sales of session fees), and there are amateur musicians. Making a recording doesn't differentiate at all, anyone - even me - could make a CD today. It's not a big deal.

Regardless, I don't remember that last time I bought a CD that follows current trends......

Oh well, I'm writing too much..... I just think you're being a little naive, and I hope you take this post as it's intended, as an observation and not an attack........ idealism won't put food on the table and pay the rent. Hence most musicians have a day job, which is eminently sensible!

OfflineView user's profileSend private message    
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic


 Jump to:   



Show permissions


© 2007-2019 EMPortal.info
Original logo design by Kimmo Heikkilä

CrackerTracker © 2004 - 2020 CBACK.de
Powered by Orion based on phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
FI Theme Converted by U.K. Forumimages
All times are GMT + 2 Hours