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 What qualifies to be an electronic music artist?

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modulator_esp
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:06 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
« modulator_esp » wrote:
After some thought I think art is an attempt to communicate an idea


Id say its even more than an idea, its a vision. True art is always visionary to me.

Stephen


well, that's one way of looking at it, but like all things in life I think there is an entire spectrum of different shades of 'art', all appreciated in different ways by different people, for different reasons

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:19 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Dithmar » wrote:
« von haulshoven » wrote:
common! paint a few notes in cubase repeat it 386 times and your an artist?


If someone still uses Cubase and haven't switched to Ableton, they are actually a bit artist. Simply because they are using medieval sequencing. Especially if they are described as even more artistic if using analogue (read stoneage) sequencing.



Quite a stupid remark, I don't think it matter if you use Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, Logic, Protools or what ever as long as it suits your needs.
I can do things in Ableton easier then in cubasde or Protools but then again I can do some other things easier in those 2. I don't think the software is the issue here. It is what you do with it.

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dronescape
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:34 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I was told that some people are still using their old Ataris running Steinberg 24 or Cubase, and are perfectly happy with that.

Some people dont even use MIDI.

Stephen

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Ron
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:51 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
I was told that some people are still using their old Ataris running Steinberg 24 or Cubase, and are perfectly happy with that.

Some people dont even use MIDI.

Stephen


Right I know a few that still use 24 or 16 track tape decks with great results, like I said its just a tool none of them are better or worse if they provide the means to an end.

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phaedra2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:19 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

We could not categorize EM in another thread
We can't define what an EM Artist is here
Rolling Eyes
I can enjoy a classical piece all done with Vienna Symphonic library straight out of Logic.
I can enjoy studio album as well as an unplugged version, if it's good.

Music really started with one instrument performances before groups were formed, like flute, piano, harpsichord, acoustic guitar, etc

I am not worried about how it was done if I like it.
Personally I am not fond of old gear either- I need a big hole in the ground for a pool, I use an excavator, not a shovel.

What I miss is something really new and innovative, if that's still possible in EM.

As for art, artists, musicians, terms, like religion, it is whatever each of us want it to be

I go listen to some music

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Dithmar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:43 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Ron » wrote:

Quite a stupid remark...


It was a joke Ron. Just a joke.

« Ron » wrote:
I don't think it matter if you use Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, Logic, Protools or what ever as long as it suits your needs.
I can do things in Ableton easier then in cubasde or Protools but then again I can do some other things easier in those 2. I don't think the software is the issue here. It is what you do with it.


And BTW if you read what I wrote after that, you a merely confirming my opinion on the matter.

« Dithmar » wrote:
...It is not the gear that decides if it is art. It is the idea and the message behind it.


So why then was it so important for you to label a joke as a stupid remark, when it was quite obvious that I didn't mean it?


Last edited by Dithmar on Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:46 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:48 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

TREIBKLANG wrote:


Quote:
What a nice discussion this has become Smile

I must admit, that the term Electronic Music is watered down a lot since its first appearance in the 1950s. Even what we name pioneers were not in the sense of Electronic Music as the term was invented. I think we had this question before on this board, and it turns out that EM is nowadays a general concept as well as a subgenre of it, where most of us will refer to it meaning something like traditional or maybe entertaining (mostly instrumental) electronic music. And I think it's correct to distinct this kind of music from the art of electronic music (AFAIK nowadays called electroacoustic music).

Regarding the term artist, I might have better asked for an EM composer or musician. Actually, I think that most of us "EM" composers are kind of craftsmen (and craftswomen of course), i.e., being more or less skilled in using or applying electronic based instruments and tools and techniques and some even in musical composition. To me, a real EM craftsman/woman also adds a fair amount of creativity to his or her work, which makes the difference to (most) popular/commercial music. But it's still applied art in my opinion, which leaves a leap to a real artist.

I am not sure, whether Schulze, Froese et al. were artists or rather in the lucky position to be one of the first in crafting electronic music, starting off with some trial and error approach to get into know how it works best. It's rather a process of learning by doing than inventing new ways to express oneself or something.


You raise the bar for the term "artist" too high. There's no need to pray on artists, there's nothing divine about the term. In my view, both Schulze, Froese etc are and were artists, as well as most contemporary EM musicians. They are also craftsmen, sometimes good ones, sometimes not so good. It's all life. There's artist and then there's Artist. One may be an artist but not necessarily an Artist all the time. Not everyone has the guts and / or talent to churn out one masterpiece after another, which is perfectly normal.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:07 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

It's quite interesting actually, how the very definition "artist" is developing thru time. And quite possibly has different meanings in different countries/societies. I can't blame Stefan for raising that bar high. Germany has a very high artistic standard. Compared to Denmark anyway, who tend to hop along for the ride...

Ages change. Technology change. It is in many ways much more easy to be an artist today compared to 10 or 20 years ago. There are so many things that so many people can now do on low-cost computers and programmes, that very exclusive to fewer people back then. Simply because you had to have a very good relationship to your bank, if you wanted to be the next Jean Michel Jarre. Today you can make music very close to Jarre with a PC and a few plugins - so close indeed that the man on the street can't tell the difference.

On the other hand, the music industry has become even more commercialized, and because of their dropping sales, they seem much more interested in the rights to the music, than the music itself. In that environment, it is (as mentioned before) super easy to be an artist Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:17 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« phaedra2008 » wrote:
What I miss is something really new and innovative, if that's still possible in EM.
:


hasn't everything been done before, both within and outside the genre ?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:37 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I tend to think that maybe I/we are just getting too old, and of course things are evolving. Of course everything hasn't been done before. But we need youth to truely challenge our ears and way of thinking.

Youth are per definition striving for "new". Once they get older, like us, they start striving for "good" instead.

I'm dead-certain there will be new ways of thinking that will surprise us all. We weren't the last radical thinking music-generation on earth. Neither the first non-radical thinking generation...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:51 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Getting old is true Dithmar,
in early 70's my father told me Pink Floyd/Deep Purple sounded like a cupboard full of cutlery falling over, to his ears.
Now I'm 52 and don't think much of my daughters prog rock/metal stuff.

But EM fans had to have an open mind to venture in EM in the first place.
I still have that, I listen to a lot of lounge, chillout, dub, deep house, trance, more up to date non chart music or go back to some Marley, Abba, Boney M, Zeppelin etc.

The current scene is stalling and dominated by late 70's TD/Schulze sequencer stuff, while other great music does not get a listen.
Redshift exploited it to death and very well too, but enough is enough.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:42 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I have this discussion with some of the young guys that I work with. It seems to me that they are joyriding the subgenre-highway, and isn't really that much into truely discovering new ways. But I must admit that maybe I am looking for that in the wrong environment of the music scene. One day they call it dubstep, then darkstep, then darkdub - and all just because they change a fraction of the way they work with the beat or the bass.

So admitted - I tend to feel like you.

But then something happened a few months back. I was at an event on Christiania (Danish freetown - for those in here that haven't heard about, you should...), and across the small road opposite to the venue, a small experimental band was playing something that sounded quite awfull. It was like polyrhythm without control. And polyphony using quatersteps or something, because most of it sounded out of key. All played on a mixture of electronic, classical and worldmusic instruments.

I concluded that it was some guys who hadn't learned how to play properly yet. Then someone told me that these guys was graduates from the conservatory and could all play their instruments better than most.

Hmmm - then maybe this was a classic example of me being too old, and not able to tune my ears and mind into their way of thinking. I refused to akknowlegde that this was the case, but then suddenly I remembered my fathers reaction to the sound of TD, KS or even Stockhausen when I played that to him. "That isn't even music..." It was simply to big for him to comprehend. And now it's my turn.

Basically the exact same father-son experience as you Wink

That is why I am adamant that there will be new inventions and developments that is hard for us to imagine. The human nature is simply to thirsty for discovery for the development to come to a complete standstill.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:59 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I hope that something new will happen, and if it does I am sure it will be rejected initially.
I also remember when Christiania came to happen.
I thought it was a hippies exit stage left last effort, but it still exists, no need to go to Amsterdam fro a legal roll.
We just about solved nothing, although stimulating.
Cheers.

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Last edited by phaedra2008 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Dithmar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:06 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Great feedback - let me know if you turn up in CPH at any point. Will be happy to take you for a spin around CA as we call it.

And agreed - we didn't solve a thing. But it is always interesting to hear other peoples perspectives.

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