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 EM and Space, maybe it's too obvious..

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Russell Storey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:33 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the space thing is linked to escapism not just space (although having all those free nasa images must have helped) people have been invited to deserts,mountains,sf worlds,oceans etc by most em artists eg TD 3am at the border of the marsh,any escape from the normal 9-5 city based domestic worlds of the majority of listeners who only escape on annual holidays. Even Kraftwerk had some escapist tracks like trans Europe express even though they often focused on everyday items like calculators.
I also happen to like the space images and have used plenty for my own solo releases.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:50 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I share the same views as Russell.
Earth is here, now, front page of any newspaper, Google this and that...small place.
All phases of existence were covered musically one way or another.

Space, the final frontier is a window into the past which once deciphered will show us what the future holds.
The vastness provide an infinite source of inspiration.

EM & Space, I think they mix naturally in our mind coz movies precodnitioned us to relate sounds to images, early movies soundFx evolved into EM, strange worlds go with strange music.

So what is cosmic music as the vacuum out there does not carry sound?
The only natural cosmic sounds are the ones recorded by the Voyager probe and radio telescopes in the radio frequency spectrum.
That leads us to personal taste deciding what music goes best with those "out of this world" images.

Thinking of the EM pioneers, I can't think of any releases as cosmic, even Vangelis mentions in interviwes that sometimes he composes very cosmic music, shame none of that ended up on records.
Création du Monde would be his most cosmic track on record but it was composed for an animal life documentary, I can't ever listen to it and imagine something cosmic.

I think cosmic music emerged out of the Ambient/New Age generes and is split in 2 main categories:
Progressive, experimental sounds like Steve Roach
Melodic, easy on the ear like Jonn Serrie.

New Age belongs to Earth, I can't connect spiritually to angels and dolphins floating up there on great blue backgrounds with full moons and shining lights.

Space inspired Classical music is rare, the main themes are usually inspired more by Mythology than Astronomy.
Yet as an all rounder, classic music is probably the most used style for any kind of soundtrack.

In a nutshell, The Earth is cool to live on while Space is a source of fascination.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:00 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

A lot of early 1950s sci-fi stuff was actually feebly disguised McCarthy-era fear of Communism, with Communists disguised as aliens coming down to Earth...

What does this say about sci-fi Wink ?

Stephen (waiting for the bashing).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:52 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

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A lot of early 1950s sci-fi stuff was actually feebly disguised McCarthy-era fear of Communism, with Communists disguised as aliens coming down to Earth...

All true, but that was screwed by Star Trek coming along, invasions stopped, we went out there chasing others.
How strange, the lunatic was on the grass then one minute nowhere, now here?
Seemed so long ago so clear, sure as hell it was the blue fog out of that crystal lake getting thicker and louder, damn, it's 3am and late again for the Okefenokee thing...
I remember now, it's all coming back to me...
Rolling Eyes

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:10 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Why is an interest in space seen as escapism? Sure it can be, but then so can materialism and fame, money, sex, drugs, rock and roll etc etc.

The non-personal perception of space is not held by all cultures and different relationships with space are possible (despite the overwhelming pressure of western scientific traditions). I tend to listen to music like The Magnificent Void as more trans-personal - something bigger.

As a child I was mesmerised by watching the stars and the forest I was lucky to have very close, even in London - both have been a huge inspiration and part of my creative process ever since. For me it is about trying to remember what is important, beyond the small, limited awareness of my own mind

I seem to remember the bleeps and bloops of the early satelittes and suspect the similarity of those sounds to early synths may have helped marry the two together.

If we were really to worry about getting stuck in cliche we'd never do anything - all sorts of other media such as books have people writing about love or sci-fi in aged old ways, but the genres don't dissapear, even if the people in the genres argue about cliches or creating new forms.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:59 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I am really amazed that it is apparently so important for so many people that the music has to be related to something, which has to be at least sort of imaginable. As if they do ask for something like a manual, or a kind of guideline.

Isn't the music enough just by itself? Is it really necessary that the title and the artwork have to tell you that this might lead you to a certain place, like outer space, under water, deserts or where ever?

I personally feel really bored and bothered by any of those titles that doesn't even try to find a not-so-washed-out way to present those overstrained themes again and again. For me it always feels a bit like those artists might think that their audience must be completely stupit and illiterate.

Of course it is hardly possible to avoid clichés at all (How many love stories have been written ever since Hamlet wrote Romeo and Juliet anyway?). But it is worth trying to find interesting variations of those motives at least though.
And since we're living in time in which almost everybody should has access to any information one could ever fancy it seems to be that this particular feeling of being pushed into a world "where no man has boldly went before" has to be triggered much more subtle and surprizing.

Space is to me a place I personally don't know about, and certainly I never will. So it is obvious that it becomes the place for so-called projections. I guess it was the same thing back then when there were still so many white spots on the map of the earth. People used to put all their imagination and myths in those spots. Until they were wiped out from the maps by couraged explorers.

However, I neither I need a guideline for listening to music, nor do I want to let my very personal myths (which I am really happy that I still have them) dissapear by arbitrary artwork or narrow-minded song titles. I want to be surprised instead!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:09 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:

Stephen (waiting for the bashing).


Off topic: I want to officially announce that this guy is to blame for [...] (put in any evil suffering of the mankind, especially regarding to the current scene of traditional electronic music, as predominantly discussed here in this forum)

This guy really came a long way, didn't he?

Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:53 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I guess no matter what other word is used instead of 'escapism" it would have to mean the same thing, we make our choices when and where we feel right unless disciplined or forced to do things at certain times by some military style environment with very predictable outcomes.

I see no bigger thing than Space, once out there the Earth is less significant.
The other problem is that everything needs to be presented in a package, a box a cover, I can't imagine everything in a shop to be in 2-3 size blank boxes/bags, life would be too full of surprises...

The Magnificent Void is an interesting mention as everyone listening to the music associate it with way out there cold space music, but hoe did it really come about?

Steve Roach composed it based on the book "The Holotropic Mind" which I have and read many years ago, from what I remember it had little to do with space and it's more a compilation of researches/references and author's views on of human mind behavior often under the influence of drugs like LSD, creative minds, out of body experiences, etc.

Our Scientists and Engineers mapped the Universe and at high level we know what's out there for billions of light years leaving behind thousands of years of human myths and legends.

However, if these are seen through faith or a spiritual prism it would take a different dimension beyond our little topic here.

Time changed us in different ways, plenty of Romeo & Juliet full length movies still made in India while every Western movie is likely to have a more subtle R&J episode weaved into the main story.
Comes down to how each of us creates their own world within the set rules, here or out there.
Highly philosophic and personal stuff, way/away from why EM and Space get along Laughing

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:45 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
A lot of early 1950s sci-fi stuff was actually feebly disguised McCarthy-era fear of Communism, with Communists disguised as aliens coming down to Earth...

What does this say about sci-fi Wink ?

Stephen (waiting for the bashing).


not a lot Smile

it says more about the people who made it actually

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:47 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

there's a reason why things become cliches
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:07 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Phaedra said: "The Magnificent Void is an interesting mention as everyone listening to the music associate it with way out there cold space music, but hoe did it really come about?

Steve Roach composed it based on the book "The Holotropic Mind" which I have and read many years ago, from what I remember it had little to do with space and it's more a compilation of researches/references and author's views on of human mind behavior often under the influence of drugs like LSD, creative minds, out of body experiences, etc. "

I remember that connection too, despite where my mind takes me when listening to it. The film 'Altered States' (with it's 'love saves all' sub plot) considers perhaps the same territory - taking the main character back to the place before thought began. I think he describes it as a void at some point but I could be wrong.

Phaedra said: "Our Scientists and Engineers mapped the Universe and at high level we know what's out there for billions of light years leaving behind thousands of years of human myths and legends"

Depends on the myths and legends you are referring to. Scientists are still unable to explain how the Australian aborigonal people knew how many stars there are in the Pleades, despite not being able to see them with the naked eye. Although many scientific traditions belittle the older 4 element world views they miss both the subtlety (ie we still only have solid, liquid, gas and plasma)and that the elements are related to differently.

The western scientific paradigm, as well as giving us the synths and awareness of space we are discussing, also has it's blind spots and myths. I remember reading, in a scientific book, that most equations don't actually work out - but we are taught, brought up to believe, that science is the only answer to everything......

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:47 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Of course the whole subject of space is fascinating, no doubt about that, but I think the original question was why space and electronic music seem to go together like the proverbial ball-and-chain.

This question has so far been unanswered Wink.

Stephen

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:26 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
Of course the whole subject of space is fascinating, no doubt about that, but I think the original question was why space and electronic music seem to go together like the proverbial ball-and-chain.

This question has so far been unanswered Wink.

Stephen


It's cos when I play my music to people they space out Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:37 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Scientists are still unable to explain how the Australian aborigonal people knew how many stars there are in the Pleades, despite not being able to see them with the naked eye.

Guess what Seren, neither can the Aborigines.
They had no written language to record anything, nor do they know where they came from.
It was science that dated cave paintings back 40 000 years, and the DNA says they came from Southeast asia, like Papua New Guinea locals.
History is very fascinating but Space wins for me.

Quote:
why space and electronic music seem to go together like the proverbial ball-and-chain

I think this will remain unanswered like many other topics involving personal preferences.

For me EM & Space is a match made in Heaven
Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:44 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Phaedra said: Guess what Seren, neither can the Aborigines.
They had no written language to record anything, nor do they know where they came from.
It was science that dated cave paintings back 40 000 years, and the DNA says they came from Southeast asia, like Papua New Guinea locals.
History is very fascinating but Space wins for me.[

That may be true, depending on who you speak to amongst the people themselves - I was only trying to make the observation that science, despite it's popularity, does not have all the answers - and is as open to creating it's own myths, propaganda and lies as anyone else - there are still a lot of unanswered questions and perhaps it all depends on whether we are moved more by answers or mystery.

I seem to remember they have their own creations myths, much like we do, so i suspect they would say they know exactly where they come from. And like other pre writing cultures, there was a huge respect for the story telling - not in the sense of our current prediliction for made up ones, but accurate recounting of them so that they were able to live in harsh conditions without the modern aids/entrapments of daily living.

Pheadra quoted: why space and electronic music seem to go together like the proverbial ball-and-chain
I think this will remain unanswered like many other topics involving personal preferences.

For me EM & Space is a match made in Heaven
Very Happy

I agree.

PS I can't get my head round trying to seperate bits out of places for quotes - sorry if it meeses up the communication.

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