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 New Klaus Schulze album 2015

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xxx440Hz
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:20 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« jmj713 » wrote:
So this was fake? Why would someone do this?
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This is an illusion.

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dronescape
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:41 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« Syn » wrote:
« dronescape » wrote:
a forgotten hero on his way into oblivion meets the fad of the day.

Stephen

i dunno, Schulze sounds more like Electronic Opera music these days.


At that time, in the early 1990s, Schulze was not exactly popular, a relic from the 1970s and 1980s with dwindling numbers of listeners -- people had moved on to something else in their lives. The best thing that could ever have happened to him was being rediscovered by a mass phenomenon rooted in youth culture -- there is a lot of potential, especially in terms of money.

The techno people, on the other hand, gained some artistic credibility that way -- "hey, they are collaborating with the inventor of this music (according to some encyclopedia), they must have something artistically meaningful to say."

The fact that KS sounds like anemic contemporary classical music these days is owed to the fact that he has never been taken seriously as a serious composer of serious music, no matter how hard he tried.

Stephen

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:03 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:
(...) is owed to the fact that he has never been taken seriously as a serious composer of serious music, no matter how hard he tried.

Which is most likely because he and his music can't be taken seriously...? I'm an EM Fan for over 30 years, have seen Schulze live and have quite a few of his recordings, but I still don't know what makes him so special. He's neither a good musician, nor composer. He has been moderately successful in what he did though, so who am I to judge...

As for the new album, we'll see it when it's there. Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:15 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Till some 20 years ago I favored TD over KS because it was more accessible, melodic easy to pause, skip or pick up again.

Schulze was complex, his long tracks started minimalistic then he'd sneak in layer upon layer of new sound textures culminating into a massive soundscape.

Schulze is not a musician nor a composer & unable to follow the "classic" rules of composing he simply invented his own style, he became an Abstract aural Artist, sculpting timeless works.

The lack of rules and structure meant no repeatability so he could not replay the same thing 100% as reflected on the many concert recordings floating around, every concert was different.

If I think back now at Ricochet, Rubycon, Stratosfear, Encore, they are like Jarres Oxygene: love them but rarely play them, but Mirage or Body Love(s) I never get bored of.

For me me Schulze is an Artist using musical instrument rather than a Musician.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:27 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I prefer KS over TD too.

I can't comment on either musicianship or composing as I have training in neither

I prefer the early music of both to the later more 'musical' music - which is a reflection of both my preference for sound over music and my age as I was discovering music in the mid seventies.
I tend to 'try' more Schulze releases than TD - buying them if I see them in a shop to see if I like them....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:00 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« xxx440Hz » wrote:
« jmj713 » wrote:
So this was fake? Why would someone do this?
Image

This is an illusion.


...a cheap trick? Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

I think it's a little unfair to say KS is an artist rather than a musician; that's like saying a tomato is red, and not a tomato. Clearly both are true. The reason he's so revered - and rightly so - is because he was lucky enough to be making electronic music at a time when such music, and the synths that founded it, was starting to be created. He was a groundbreaker, like TD at the same time. Plus, he had an unerring musical ear for what was good and true in EM. Virtually all his music from about '75 up to Audentity can i.m.o. be classed as trailblazing. Since then he's lost his way, and I think that is most likely because of commercial success. He has to make money from music to physically survive. There are many artists and bands who face this dilemma every day. Or... some artists give up and go get a day job. But commercial success is a music-killer. We should all feel lucky it hasn't happened to us.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:51 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« stevepalmer » wrote:
[...] Plus, he had an unerring musical ear for what was good and true in EM. [...]


I whole-heartedly agree with most of what you wrote.

He must have gone rather tone-deaf at some point, though.

Commercial success is what made KS lose his way... white nose powder, expensive gear, Porsches, p*rn starlets, and ultimately booze... success can be quite a burden when you're young and believe yourself to be immortal (and your success to be ever-lasting).

Stephen

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:20 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« VCO1 » wrote:
(...) but I still don't know what makes him so special. He's neither a good musician, nor composer.


I think whoever "is special" is so only from the perspective of a limited group of people - sometimes this group is bigger, and sometimes smaller.

While it is hard to deny that KS is not a technically skilled musical performer, the question whether or not he is an able composer is debatable, I think.

It depends (for example) on what exactly you mean by "composer"; in the sense of "able to produce traditional music of any sort" he is, I guess, not especially gifted, either.
However, in the sense of "effectively building/assembling larger forms of sonic art from smaller elements, thus creating a whole that's much bigger than the sum of it's parts" - that's a different story.

I think in his best moments (and there were more of these than just one or two...) he was able to create a unique kind of otherworldy music that never was surpassed (and rarely reached) by technically much more qualified musicians or composers who attempted to create something similar (...my personal opinion, of course - still the same after years and years and years listening to all kind of electronic music).

I recall something that repeatedly happened to me years ago (I think around 2005 / 2006, at a time when I was still only familiar with a hand full of KS albums and most of his work was still uncharted terretory for me) when I had the habit to listen a lot to ambient radio streams like SomaFM and similar during my daily work; music was flowing all day long, and usually, I enjoyed what I heard; occasionally, though, a track started that fascinated me so much that I had to put my work aside and look what it was, and by who - and in 9 of 10 cases, it was something by KS that I had not be familiar with before...

I think I'd fail to analyse what exactly it is that faszinates me about his music more than in the case of most other EM musicians (and I have a big heart, and love tons of other music as well). But I can't deny the fact. There is something in most of his music - in his most outstanding work, but also in his minor albums - that seems to speak directly to my heart. Listening to Schulze makes me feel at home. Even after listening to his work on an almost daily basis since almost 10 years now, I hardly ever feel bored by it.

But I think it's a personaly thing (like any reception of art - or anything); either something touches us - or it doesn't.

With ca. 150 KS albums around, I still wished there were 150 more to explore... Smile

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:07 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:


The fact that KS sounds like anemic contemporary classical music these days is owed to the fact that he has never been taken seriously as a serious composer of serious music, no matter how hard he tried.

Stephen


I don't know if Stockhausen is serious. So serious that he is funny.


Last edited by xxx440Hz on Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:17 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« phaedra2008 » wrote:


For me me Schulze is an Artist using musical instrument rather than a Musician.


I like those messages. Reminds me the good old times of endless discussions on those topics. I miss this.

I don't like too much words like "music", "musician", etc.... Sometimes it brings us to sterile debates. Nevertheless, it is interesting to discuss this. It is interesting to my sense to see to what extend KS is different from other musicians, not to say that this or that is better. I'd prefer to extract what is the essence of his "music" (whatever we call it) to see what makes KS be KS and not TD. And surely for TD, if we take albums like "Exit" made more songs which can be played AS-IS in concerts, like pieces, something predictable, which is not bad. KS in the 70ies (for the pieces I predfer) used sequencers, rhythms, and solo lines. The rhythm is predictable, the sequence as well (to a lesser extend), and the solo is improvised. I opened my mind to KS once I realized that his music was improvised in some ways. It happened once I listened to "Nowhere - Now Here", and said to myself : this is not a song, this is not like Oxygene or Le Parc. This is different but I don"t know why this seems strange and that I don't like it too much. And by miracle, just by thinking to it, and imagining KS in front of one synth, just playing without the construction of a piece behind, I completely changed my mind about it and suddenly opened my eyes on what his music really is. Without properly being able to say it by words. Do you know what I mean?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:19 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« stevepalmer » wrote:
that's like saying a tomato is red, and not a tomato.


And anyone can say it. Like someone said once "this is not a pipe". Or when Duchamp made something that was or was not art.

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xxx440Hz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:22 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

« dronescape » wrote:

Commercial success is what made KS lose his way... white nose powder, expensive gear, Porsches, p*rn starlets, and ultimately booze... success can be quite a burden when you're young and believe yourself to be immortal (and your success to be ever-lasting).

Stephen


Well. I don't understand this one. Did really KS have success?

I think he sold most of his LP's in the 70ies, and that's precisely when (for me) he was at his best.

Or perhaps you mean that KS lost his soul when he uses synths. Some people say that his only good album is Irrlicht Razz

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:37 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Michael,

Sorry, the "quote" function is not working for replying to your (interesting) message.

"I think whoever "is special" is so only from the perspective of a limited group of people - sometimes this group is bigger, and sometimes smaller. "

Absolutely.



"While it is hard to deny that KS is not a technically skilled musical performer, the question whether or not he is an able composer is debatable, I think."
Yes!


"It depends (for example) on what exactly you mean by "composer"; in the sense of "able to produce traditional music of any sort" he is, I guess, not especially gifted, either.
However, in the sense of "effectively building/assembling larger forms of sonic art from smaller elements, thus creating a whole that's much bigger than the sum of it's parts" - that's a different story."

Even if it was not that, it is a different story as well. The problem always relies in words and definitions, like for "composer". We put too much in words... Words are just words, and music is not words...


"I think in his best moments (and there were more of these than just one or two...) he was able to create a unique kind of otherworldy music that never was surpassed (and rarely reached) by technically much more qualified musicians or composers who attempted to create something similar (...my personal opinion, of course - still the same after years and years and years listening to all kind of electronic music). "

Maybe because we are not tackling technical skills (most of us have them in emusic) but about something else. Words again, and limitations. Perhaps : vision, expression, usage of technical skills to materialize an intention, style. Style in the sense of a consistency of syntax (like in litterature). There is such a consistency in KS music, we immediately recognize it. And of course, we know all some people who imitates (sometimes quite well) KS. But this is not KS. And we know that if KS produces a certain piece in time and is doing another record later, we place it in a kind of chronology. When KS played the Minimoog in the Duisburg concert people were mad about it because it seemed to be the right time to do it, and it had a special meaning for us. History, style, consistency, and also something I would call "technique for purpose", using things because they must be put at that place at that time. KS sequences are exactly all that. 70ies sequences by KS are for me the strongest things he made, especially in concerts where the magic of the moment increased its "meaning'.


"I recall something that repeatedly happened to me years ago (I think around 2005 / 2006, at a time when I was still only familiar with a hand full of KS albums and most of his work was still uncharted terretory for me) when I had the habit to listen a lot to ambient radio streams like SomaFM and similar during my daily work; music was flowing all day long, and usually, I enjoyed what I heard; occasionally, though, a track started that fascinated me so much that I had to put my work aside and look what it was, and by who - and in 9 of 10 cases, it was something by KS that I had not be familiar with before... "

This is not by coincidence. Smile


"I think I'd fail to analyse what exactly it is that faszinates me about his music more than in the case of most other EM musicians (and I have a big heart, and love tons of other music as well). But I can't deny the fact. There is something in most of his music - in his most outstanding work, but also in his minor albums - that seems to speak directly to my heart. Listening to Schulze makes me feel at home. Even after listening to his work on an almost daily basis since almost 10 years now, I hardly ever feel bored by it. "

YES!


"But I think it's a personaly thing (like any reception of art - or anything); either something touches us - or it doesn't.

With ca. 150 KS albums around, I still wished there were 150 more to explore... Smile "

I fear that now with all that has been released we have nearly discovered everything... And we have to thank kdm for this (I will have reactions on this sentence ahahahah).

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xxx440Hz
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:40 pm    (No subject) Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks all for those latest messages.

Let's continue to discuss with this level of quality. Smile

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