-The Sad Old Seven-

by Artemi Pugachov

 
dlmorley
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 04.09.2007 - 12:27  ·  #25
Quote by Soundwave
An good example of this is the soundtrack to the film Solaris by cliff Martinez which, now deleted is fetching silly money especially in the states only because it's caught the ear of people who are unaware of this type of music and don't realize that there's been a whole range of artist doing this kind of music for many years.
Don't get me wrong Solaris a very good soundtrack album but compared to artists like Steve Roach, Namlook, Rich ect it kinda falls in its place so to speak.


I think Solaris is better than most of what those artists have put out for a long time and find it a very original album (just to offset your point ;-0 )
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 04.09.2007 - 13:35  ·  #26
Good article Artemi.

I like Soundwaves response too, lots of comments about lots of things that contribute to the discussion.

The only person in music that seemed to keep their ears open and not get locked into his own viewpoint was John Peel (a comment on my limited knowledge more than anything else perhaps!) - If he'd been a musician would he have kept creating different stuff? very few of us seem to have the ability or resources to keep allowing change to change us, keeping our ears and creativity truly open. If we are unable to change as listeners, how can we judge those who make music - how do we allow change and still keep our sense of identity? what is important to us?

I felt in the mid seventies that anything was possible musically and yet, now, I recognise the limits of my own taste and wonder when my boundaries crystalised. I will listen to anything if it is played to me, but there is so much out there I have to make choices about what I will actually buy and spend time listening to.

I knew a london band in the late 70's that had a label (Flux of Pink Indians) and after one attempt to actually explore their creativity they went back to the anarcho punk format because they felt getting the message across was more important than doing it in a particular way - but it would be hard to express the shock and upset they felt when they realised how locked into narrow 'genre' stereotypes the 'alternative' fans could be - just swapping one mindset for another rather than creating something for themselves....
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 04.09.2007 - 16:01  ·  #27
Quote by Seeker_UK
Quote by MarkM
I was interested in the Madonna comment. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but I do admire her abilities to keep evolving. One the chief ways in which artists like Madonna keep evolving is that they are not afraid to seek out new, upcoming, and innovative producers. I doubt that happens in EM. The results are often the same old same-old. A good producer can inspire.


But therein lies the problem. Madge has jumped from one genre to another. Any progression from what may or may not be considered as "Real EM" (and as many others have said) will end up with the EM cogniscenti jumping up and down and complaining that it's not "real EM".

This is, of course, bollocks. TD, the band we all love to hate, because they don't make "real EM", are making some great records at the moment (The 5 Atomic Seasons looks set to be a cracking set of disks). I would suggest that whether their artistic integrity is intact or not (and that is also a matter of opinion) they sell a lot of CDs because their music makes a lot of people happy and happy enough to want to own the music. And they sell more than say Syn or (burn me for being a heretic) RMI or FSP or whoever you'd care to hold up as the standard bearer for "Real EM" which would suggest their music means more to more people and must be just as valid etc.......

To use Madonna as way of example, if you looked at say her album "Music", it's dance music as was her first album. But if the same principles were applied to her as they seem do to EM, people would denounce it as not being dance music because it is a million miles away from the "4 to the floor" played on 80s digital keyboards.

Basically. Stop navel gazing. Accept that music made electronically or with electronic elements is now going to cover a wide variety of styles. Evolution means going places we don't all like, Vangelis has gone somewhere else, as has Carlos, Edgar, Tomita et al.

Get over it, it's not 1974 any more and Moogs are not the only way to make electronic music.


Nice thought provoking article by the way Artemi. Got any more on the way?


Not yet. Maybe in the future...
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 04.09.2007 - 17:23  ·  #28
Quote by Seeker_UK

Get over it, it's not 1974 any more and Moogs are not the only way to make electronic music.


Exactly!
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 06.09.2007 - 01:23  ·  #29
Thanks Artemi, for stirring up such interesting comments from people. :D
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 06.09.2007 - 08:13  ·  #30
Quote by Sonic Steve
Thanks Artemi, for stirring up such interesting comments from people. :D


:) :)
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 10.09.2007 - 21:52  ·  #31
Quote by MarkM

I was interested in the Madonna comment. I'm not a huge fan of hers, but I do admire her abilities to keep evolving. One the chief ways in which artists like Madonna keep evolving is that they are not afraid to seek out new, upcoming, and innovative producers. I doubt that happens in EM. The results are often the same old same-old. A good producer can inspire.


First, about Madonna: It appears that certain artists or entire genres are expected to be more conservative than others, such as EM, because I often see comments about how new directions by artists are interpreted as a step down in quality, if that new direction is not within what people like. While Madonna can be labelled innovative with her changes, other artists who change are labelled "out of sync".

Second, about producers: Almost no EM artists can afford to hire producers. We're back to the 10 classic 70s pioneers for that, and some film composers. Aside from the cost, I think many EM artists are afraid of producers and think they can add nothing. It's the "I want to do it all myself" syndrome. Just like that other thread here about mastering engineers. Not even record labels who are going to release albums are always allowed to "tamper" with music in production.
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Re: -The Sad Old Seven-

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Posted: 10.09.2007 - 22:11  ·  #32
I think the point with not using producers is probably more to do with instrumentation.
A band with a drummer, 2 guitars, vocals and bass for example need someone who has experience in balancing and recording all those instruments more than a solo artist with basically synths.
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